Easy one :)
All musicians can be guitarists but not all guitarists can be musicians. :D
Elaborate please...
I can't lol Forgot what I was thinking when I wrote that, sounded cool in my head at the time. Today it only confuses me.
Download a bunch of cheat sheets and posters: http://stevesmusiclist.com/
:lol:
Just finding the whole thread a bit elitist - that we can say who is and isn't a musician.... I think all people who play are its just some aren't as far on or as educated or as natural at it. I've taught people before though who didn't have innate rhythm and had success, it just took a bit longer.
So I don't know...... and the topic seems to be about shredding and Honeyboy started this but hasn't come back. I can't shred, I appreciate the work those people who put into it and when you use it creatively and musically (like not doing it all the time in a song but saving it for builds) I don't see anything wrong with it either. In my opinion Satriani, Vai, Paul Gilbert all do that very well and make music that sounds good (though I sometimes struggle with Steve Vai when he gets a bit strange)
I mean I'm still making assumptions about what this topic really means...... maybe Honeyboy just heard someone who was doing a bad job of shredding in a guitar centre while he was trying out a guitar - yeah that's very frustrating.... but I know a guitarist in my town he can shred and was way into Vai etc... but he can also play jazz, blues, funk and any music you throw at him. I can't say the speed hurt his playing and definitely did improve it for rock and of course jazz where there's many fast runs.
Just my thoughts on this.
together we stand, divided we fall..........
A is subset of B.
B is also subset of A.
I think Honeyboy should come back and talk - its his thread :lol:
together we stand, divided we fall..........
Not a huge fan of shredding (not only because I don't have the skills to do it lol) but there are some amazing solos out there with minimal notes, yet the artist/musician can bring out a full range of emotion and really get what the song is about and bring it about in a minimalist fashion.
I'm still confused by my post but another try (mind you, I have the flu and mixed meds with Rum): A musician is one that brings soul/feeling from any instrument. A guitarist is one that brings soul/feeling from a guitar lol... Oh boy... lol Going back to bed now!
Download a bunch of cheat sheets and posters: http://stevesmusiclist.com/
(I have the flu and mixed meds with Rum)
You, sir or ma'am, are my kind of guy. :D
The value of knowing a few things about music other than just how to make your fingers go real fast on a fretboard are obvious. And that, I think, is the essence of what we're talking about when we talk about the difference between a guitar player and a musician. I want to know that when I say "A flat" to the guy at the music stand next to me, he knows what I'm talking about. It saves time. It helps us all get our work done. I want to play with people who look at music as WORK, as a job that needs to be done at the most professional level possible. I don't care to see how fast your fingers can go. Not while I'm working. I want us to play good at the gig. THEN if you want to show off your finger tricks, we can talk.
Honeyboy was just tossin' dynamite into the pond to see how many fish would float to the surface.... but I think there is value in thinking of oneself as a musician first and foremost. Thinking of music as work doesn't detract from its beauty. The phrase "work of art" needs some retooling. We have an overly romanticized image of what artists do. To make art, you have to work. You can't just pick up the guitar, get a dreamy look in your eyes, and start blowing like Miles Davis.
Mind you, this screed about work is coming from the laziest musician on the planet. I HATE practicing. But the reality is, you only get out of it what you put into it. I feel blessed by my present musical position -- I'm working with two well-schooled players, multi-instrumentalists, and we communicate perfectly. It hasn't always been this way. "I'm sorry, but when you say 'A flat,' where exactly is that on the neck?"... God save me if I ever hear that again. Give me musicians over "players" every time.
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa
You got A flat? Did you call a tow truck hehehe :D
*runs* (for more rum)
Download a bunch of cheat sheets and posters: http://stevesmusiclist.com/
You got a private message, Do, you witty rascal.
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa
Well I'm not sure who posted it but someone mentioned and I tend to beleive it and that is we are all at different stages of playing our instruments. Just like you can't just pick up any instrument and start playing you can't just become a musician without work and I think before you can be called a true musician you have to at some level be a player first.
But Crow is right it is work and being a musician is being a player but alot more also.
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
(I have the flu and mixed meds with Rum)
Works for me too.
I want to play with people who look at music as WORK, as a job that needs to be done at the most professional level possible.
I may be on my own on this one, but I don't think of music as work; I think of it as the big thing which defines what I am.
I don't care to see how fast your fingers can go. Not while I'm working. I want us to play good at the gig. THEN if you want to show off your finger tricks, we can talk.
No, I don't care how fast people can play either.
"When you shred the meaning of the music is fundamentally lost" - discuss
"Be good at what you can do" - Fingerbanger"
I have always felt that it is better to do what is beautiful than what is 'right'" - Eliot Fisk
Wedding music and guitar lessons in Essex. Listen at: http://www.rollmopmusic.co.uk
"When you shred the meaning of the music is fundamentally lost" - discuss
Now that I would have to disagree with more on principle than anything else. Why is the meaning lost if you shred? How can you say shredding is less musical then anything else....it may be but that is just your personal take on it. On an empirical level it's no different than any other set of notes unless of course anything played over 200 BPM is not considered music.
Trust me I am not a fan of shredders per se, but just because a million notes a second doesn't sound musical to you that doesn't mean it doesn't sound musical to anyone else or that it isn't.
This site is devoid of mopst shredders so I woul expect alot people to agree with you here but the demographics are scewed in favor of not liking it. Post that on a metal site and they'll say you're full of it.
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
Why is the meaning lost if you shred? How can you say shredding is less musical then anything else....it may be but that is just your personal take on it.
Personally, I do think the meaning is lost, but as you say that is my personal take on it and I'm happy for you to disagree. I threw the question in as there'd been a few mentions of shredding in the thread so I wanted to tease out people's thinking.
"Be good at what you can do" - Fingerbanger"
I have always felt that it is better to do what is beautiful than what is 'right'" - Eliot Fisk
Wedding music and guitar lessons in Essex. Listen at: http://www.rollmopmusic.co.uk
There is no difference . A guitarist plays notes on a guitar that is intonated , hopefully , to coincide with the notes that western music is composed of . Whether played badly or brilliantly it's still music . And that makes him a musician .
I think shredding is like any other set of notes that you play . If it sounds good played together , it's music . What determines if it's good music is opinion . There is a lot of music that I don't like listening to all that much but it still qualifies as music .
A friend tried to get me to listen to Allan Holdsworth but I couldn't find anything in his music that appealed to me . That doesn't mean he isn't a musician , just that I don't like his music . It's art and art is subjective . Try to tell the mother of a two-year old that the picture hanging on her refrigerator isn't art and you'd be in trouble .
If I claim to be a wise man , it surely means that I don't know .
"Work" is a loaded word. For me, "work" in a musical sense means we have stuff we have to do, as a group, at some kind of basic level of competence, to accomplish the task at hand. Beyond that, it's all gravy. Do the work first, then have fun.
"Shred" is a loaded word, as well. How do we define that? How many 64th notes does one have to play in a minute, or a second, to qualify as a "shredder?" In general I find musical quality to diminish as the number of notes piles up. There are exceptions, but not many, and especially not on guitar, where it it just too easy to make your fingers fly around and sound like you're hot when you're not.
Music is such an individual thing. Ultimately I think it's carnal -- it's about physicality. If music doesn't bite you right straight in the flesh, it's not working.
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa
But music is so subjective everyone has a different take on the same artist. Alan I actually don't disagree I am just trying to look at this objectively. I never listen to shredder type music because like you it doesn't do anything for me, but that's the key for me. not for anyone else. I know there are thousands maybe millions of people that LOVE hearing that music so someone likes it.
I don't have a problem when people say they don't like that type of music, but when you start talking about how it isn't musical or something along those lines you project an air of arrogance that only the music YOU like is really music and the rest is just garbage. OK I may have taken some liberties in my assessment but I hope you get the drift.
By the way Alan what is the meaning of music and how does shredding not fit that?
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
